Author Topic: Affordability ???  (Read 21565 times)

Jack N.

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Affordability ???
« on: October 28, 2007, 03:54:01 PM »
I appreciate all the work it takes to put a product together, HOWEVER... Am I the only one , or are Muse Receptors priced WAY out of range!?!   >:(   I play 3-4- nights  every week PLUS work a full-time job and $2700.00 is just an impossible amount to pay for a drum module.  And  I also notice that those who have bought the receptor have had to spend hours TWEAKING it!!  You'd  think after spending close to three thousand dollars that you should just have to plug it up and be amazed !!! How much money do they think we musicians make?  I was hoping Alternate Mode would appreciate those of us who are in the art for the LOVE OF MUSIC.   
I'm just frustrated with the over inflated pricing which plagues some of the poorest people on the planet...MUSICIANS!!!

dave_b

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2007, 10:37:52 PM »
Not to dilute your point, but Muse Research is a separate company. 

You could certainly build an equivalent PC for less money.  For me, in the next few months I plan to build a new machine in either a rackmount case or one of the Thermaltake lanboxes.  I'm hoping I can cut some metal and add XLR's to the back without having a separate box.  That would be the lightest solution, but I still may need a keyboard, trackball, and monitor, so it gets cluttered pretty quickly for someone like me who only uses a DK10 as an add-on for my acoustics.

And that, I guess, is the thing.  The footprint of the Receptor and the ease of use (once it's set up?) make it pretty attractive for touring musicians.  Much like the Roland stuff, it's way out of my price range.  Frankly, so is a new Trapkat, but I'm still an acoustic player at heart. 

pljones

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2007, 04:50:17 PM »
And it's so much more than a "drum module".  It's every drum module ever, pretty much.  Think about that for a while...

bunnyman

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2007, 08:40:33 PM »
Eventually, there will be other products that will have many features of the Muse Receptor at a more palatable price. Will it be good? Who knows.

There is a lot of software on the Muse Receptor. That being said, it is a bunch of money and I am not in the market for one.

Jovato

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2007, 01:18:11 PM »
I got a REV C with 2 Gigs of Ram and a 250 Gig hard drive, BFD, BFD Jazz n Funk and BFD Percussion for about $2200.  Even at that price, it would be way overpriced if it were just a module.  What it is is just a big box of Jell-o and you mold it into whatever you need it to be.  You will never run out of the best drum samples available, that is for sure.  But you also have Synths, Guitar and Bass effects and processors, Vocal effects and processors, mixing etc. etc.  Even with all of that under the hood, you are right that it is overpriced for a "module".  If a module is all you need, the DTXtreme IIs is the most under appreciated and best match for a Kat that I can think of.  I keep toying with the idea of selling my Receptor setup and getting a module for simplicity.  Then I put on the headphones and listen to one of those kits that I've spent way more time tweaking than I wanted to and I think, "yeah, it's worth it."  If you need what it does, the Receptor is worth every penny and more.  If you don't, it is a big expensive pain in the ass.

benjammin

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2007, 08:10:24 PM »
I need it and want it but it's still too expensive for me.  :'(

MalKat

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2007, 09:49:24 PM »
I agree - it is a ton of money to pay for something that you may only push to 10% of its potential - though, I thought the Receptor Komplete was P&P.  If I could hear the exact sounds which are included w/the package, I might be able to justify it. As of now, nobody at Muse or AM returns my emails to respond to my requests for live auditioning of the Receptor K. And all of the sound demos have TONS of effects built into the sequences.

The only problem w/building your own PC is that it would still have to run an operating system - Windows or Mac – which still brings up a latency issue. And when your gig calls for you to be at rest for 10 or 15 minutes then out of nowhere play a couple of solo glockenspiel notes while 2,000 people watch the action onstage, you have to have bulletproof operation. That’s a lot of money to drop with nothing but a promise that “it’ll sound good.” My hope is that somebody will soon take the receptor architecture and develop something for live musicians which really is p&p and easy to use. (btw: still waiting for Muse to reply)



dave_b

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2007, 03:33:21 PM »
I can only speak for me, but my day-to-day PC is running XP SP2 and latency hasn't been an issue.  Even buzz rolls are fine.

MalKat

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2007, 09:03:19 AM »
Yes, I totally agree. When you are up and running, I'm sure everything would be fine.

But, if you let the system sit for 15-25 minutes (the time for an average intermission in a Broadway Musical) then come back to the system and and hit a pad, you expect to hear a note immediately. If you do not, this is the type of latency I'm talking about.

dave_b

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2007, 11:27:10 AM »
It sounds like your hard drives are shutting off after a period of inactivity.  You probably know this, but you can change it so they stay on all the time.  Same goes for disabling the screen saver, turning off the menu "animation", etc. 

I'm going to start rehearsal with my new PC this weekend, so I'll post my results. 

pljones

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2007, 02:28:07 PM »
Also, any memory optimisation routines may make swap out your sampler.  One way to stop that is not to have any swap space!  (Get more RAM.)  Another way is not to run any memory optimisation routines.

Just by way of comparison, my XP box is running about two dozen processes, all of which I understand the purpose of.  My wife's is probably running three times that...  Keeping your machine lean, without unnecessary background routines running, is critical.

The real solution remains the same: keep everything you need in main memory, not on disk.  That's how "hardware" stays fast.

jrcel

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2007, 04:56:14 PM »
If Xbox was for musicians it would cost $3000, someone(Microsoft) should offer a music Xbox.

pljones

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2007, 06:36:59 PM »
If Xbox was for musicians it would cost $3000, someone(Microsoft) should offer a music Xbox.
Market size, pure market size.  XBox360 and most consoles are funded by the "tax" on games that the vendors charge.  You ship consoles below cost and games above cost.  People only buy one console every so often but they'll buy several games - possibly tens, or even hundreds.  I imagine XBox360 developer kits and "certification" also come at a price, so Microsoft recoups from third-party developers, too.

That model has no real parallel in music technology, really.  Not even Roland has cottoned on to selling cartridges for the V-Drum brains properly.  It's more closely seen in software like Kontakt, Halion, etc, although, because the market is far far smaller than for consoles without a parallel reduction is R&D, the ability to sell below cost is less significant (i.e. from very, very expensive per unit to very expensive per unit) and the risk to the developer of doing so far higher.  Hence Halion Player and instruments based around the Kontakt engine - the third-party developer model is much less risky to the company innovating the original technology and sales effort becomes a shared burden.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2007, 06:44:41 PM by pljones »

dave_b

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2007, 10:31:23 AM »
Just by way of comparison, my XP box is running about two dozen processes, all of which I understand the purpose of.  My wife's is probably running three times that...  Keeping your machine lean, without unnecessary background routines running, is critical.
Sort of on that topic, I discovered nLite last week.  It's a piece of freeware that allows you to remove unnecessary parts of Windows (Outlook Express, as an obvious example), then create a new disk to install with.  I haven't gotten too adventurous with it yet, but it's proven to be very handy.

dave_b

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Re: Affordability ???
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2008, 02:31:50 AM »
As an update, I've taken my PC out several times now.  Other than a couple of minor user errors the first time I used it, it's done well. The RAID5 array has really helped with my piece of mind. 

On the downside, I don't know that I'd recommend the Lanbox I bought.  There's too much to connect during setup.  I'm sure it's fine for gamers, but not folks with external MIDI, soundcards, line drivers, headphone amps, etc.  Definitely buy a rack mount case if you're considering this.  I'm planning on moving in that direction if the work keeps coming in.

Another thing I haven't warmed up to: Plug-ins that force you to use their interface to access the samples.  EZDrummer is a common example.  I figured out the obvious way to extract them, but it's a hassle.  Once you start building your own kits in Ableton Live (or Kontakt I assume), the EZDrummer method is really constrictive (and slow to load, too).