Author Topic: TrapKat questions  (Read 19083 times)

zendrumdude

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TrapKat questions
« on: May 04, 2009, 07:51:12 PM »
Hello All,

I'm new to the forum and new to the TrapKat (but longtime Midi percussion and Kat user).  I just got a used TrapKat (1.1) and love it.  But...

1)  Bass drum pedal input is not "dynamic"... it sends velocity 32 for quieter hits, and 127 for louder.  That's it.  Nothing in between.  I am using a Pintech electronic pad, and triggering BFD2 in my MacBook Pro.  I have reinitialized, trained the input, etc.  Thoughts?

2)  Cymbal chokes: some pads choke, some do not.  I do not see in the manual how to select which ones do so.  And, some do choke... but they choke when I RELEASE the pad, not when I grab it!

Thanks for any help on these issues!

Jer

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2009, 08:30:37 AM »
Having had a difficult time with the new Hart bass drum I got, I am wondering if your Pintech is a new model or older? If the technology is new, apparently the TK does not adapt well. I am yet using my old Drum Tech kick pad, which is working well after messing around with Threshold settings. So you might try that route. What are you using for a kick pedal?

I never got into choking cymbals on the old TK. And the new one has some glips in it until revised, so, not much can be done. Sounds like an option for choking has been enabled that you can reset. 

Mario will probably step in here and help you out.

dave_b

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2009, 09:43:21 AM »
Bass drum pedal input is not "dynamic"... it sends velocity 32 for quieter hits, and 127 for louder.  That's it.  Nothing in between. 
I had that issue when the gain settings were set incorrectly.  I don't know if v1.1 allows you to change the gain, but you may want to try reducing it and retraining the kick.  That worked for me.  It obviously helps to have a MIDI monitor of some sort to check your results. 

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2009, 11:21:31 AM »
Do softsynths offer all the tweaking that the TK offers? Do you have twice the parameters to work with?

pljones

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2009, 02:21:00 PM »
Given that every MIDI message could be interpreted by each MIDI synth to mean anything it chose, "twice" is somewhat an understatement.  It's pretty unlimited when you get to the synth...

zendrumdude

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2009, 01:48:48 PM »
Old thread, I know... but I did get the BD pad work properly.  I had to set some of the parameters by hand rather than training.  Note to self: When in doubt, read the damn manual!

I ended up selling this old TK1.1 to a drum student to help fund my purchase of a TK XL.

As far as the softsynth question (whether you get twice the parameters), if it's velocity response we're talking about, I'd say no.  I am using BFD2.  However, there are some DEFINITE advantages, notably the midi monitor... I just can't live without it (I am pretty picky about velocity response settings).  BFD2 has a cool velocity window with the following settings, editable PER SOUND: (Note that I didn't say PER NOTE NUMBER.  That's because you can set more than one sound per note number and each of those sounds can have its own vel settings).

Vel Min
Vel Max
Vel Curve

Also, in the drumkit window, you can add/subtract overall dynamics (i.e., make an instrument respond "hotter", or less so).

The thing I DON'T like is that the vel curve is in a graphic window, and you click and drag the curve line up or down... the problem is that you can't shape the curve.  It's either logarithmic (if you drag up) or exponential (down).  I would prefer being able to add multiple click points to drag around (remember the old "spline" curve?) or the curves that had a steep incline in one area and shallower elsewhere.  Maybe this will happen in the future.  Personally, for ULTIMATE control, I'd like to see it represented numerically... picture a 2-column, 127-row spreadsheet, left column 1-127 which represent incoming velocity from the controller (not editable) and the right column showing the altered (curved) velocity going to the software (user definable).  It'd take some math, but you could REALLY tweak that!!!  For the record, Midi Solutions actually makes a unit that does this, but it's not definable per note, just per controller (or maybe per channel).  Hmmm... now THAT'S an idea.  This would cost some $$$, but picture this: TK to a Midi splitter into, say, 4 Velocity Mappers, which are in turn connected out to a 4-in merge box.  Each of the vel mappers has a different user-defined curve, and are all set to different channels.  Each of the TK's pads are set to the channel that corresponds to the curve you want.  At the end of the chain, you'd either set the software to Midi:Omni, or rechannelize as needed.  I may actually try this.  Can I borrow a couple grand for R&D money, anyone?   ;)

Jer

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2009, 04:11:16 PM »
Not sure exactly what you're after...

The TK has vel curves per pad - not in detail...

You can get software midi filters - MIDI OX is what I use (with MIDI Yoke - you need some software MIDI cabling, too) - that let you do whatever you want to any MIDI message; incredibly powerful.

zendrumdude

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2009, 05:30:41 PM »
PLJ,

What I am after is this:

ULTIMATE detailed control of velocity curves per note number.  I know the TK has curves per pad, but I'd like to have the absolute maximum control allowed by the midi spec, which would be to be able to determine outgoing velocity for each and every step (0-127) of incoming velocity.  I know this exists PER CONTROLLER (as I mentioned, Midi Solutions) but I would like to see it PER NOTE NUMBER.  I can't imagine it would be hard to program it, but I'm not a programmer... :(

Thanks for the lead on Midi Ox; unfortunately I am on a Mac.  There is a similar app called MidiPipe for Mac; I just downloaded it and will check it out and report.

Jer

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2009, 12:13:31 AM »
Technically, what you're looking for could be done.  For example, you could write a program that would receive your midi notes and velocities then translate them to anything else based on what you put in a table (basically the Excel data you mentioned).  For example: "When the software receives a MIDI note of 34 at a velocity of 56, convert the velocity to 73 and send it on it's way." 

zendrumdude

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2009, 12:30:42 AM »
Cool Dave!

What app would I need (Mac) to do this?

Thanks man!

Jer

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2009, 02:48:39 PM »
    I think what you are asking for is covered in the DrumKAT. Since the beginning (over 20 years ago) we could set two different user set velocity curves to whatever we want. They are based on 255 steps but have been reduced to 64 steps. You set every step of the curve. The KAT does 32 midi channels, and everypad can have it's own curve, and we can link pads to further define 'splittable curves'. So you can have way more than four seperate velocities, with each controlling four notes or more. Or am I missing something?
   In our world of fsr's the curves we have (1-14) are plenty, but they added the two definable user curves (15-16) just for the purpose of triggering other piezo instruments. It sounds to me like it fulfills your request.
Vince

zendrumdude

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2009, 03:50:07 PM »
Yeah Vince,

That's it... unfortunately, I am using the TrapKat, not the DK.  Looking for a software workaround...

Thanks!

Jer

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2009, 06:05:27 PM »
There are some MIDI FX plugins that might be able to do the same deal as MIDI OX -- I don't use any and I've no idea if they run on Macs, I'm afraid.  Don't know if they let you do that many mappings -- can't see why not.  In fact, Kontakt (the sampler) can do this in scripting...

vindrums

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2009, 06:20:37 PM »
   I saw that...... I'm just saying, (jokingly) you were soliciting R & D money which is hundreds of thousands, and we have this hickey thats' already been invented for a little over a grand.....so if it's okay with you, I guess we'll just be declining that requisition for developement money :)
    And you were so close....... ;D
Vince

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Re: TrapKat questions
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2009, 08:49:38 PM »
What is missing in the Trap Kats.Vs the DrumKats ? Why aren't  the velocity curves (incl. 15 & 16 - user definable) in the system ? Wouldn't it have been easier to use the same basic chip ? The alts are missing too ?  What else ?

Sound modules usually have velocity curve settings as well.Always a good idea to see which of those work best- & in combination with trigger / pad training,Kat curve settings,etc. Also a midi monitor device to SEE the midi data. It's like a VU or meter bridge to VIEW the midi data (velocity,etc.).A must for all trouble shooting of your midi rig.It's been mentioned by several people in various threads.I use Digital Performer & it has a midi monitor.I would expect any decent sequencer / software program to have monitoring capabilities.

All my Protues modules have an amplifier setting to route to velocity / volume.Per sound- programmable. With the combo of everything here I can't see how you couldn't get your sound responding how you would like it .Start at the source - the trigger / pad setting /training & work towards the module. Once you get 1 pad working real good -with some copy functions & a little more tweaking-you should be able to quickly get ALL the triggs happening.If not,go back to your acoustic drums-because you will NEVER re-create that dynamic range out of the midi spec. NO WAY..PERIOD.period.

The R-8 has sensitivity per every note.Just like you want. It is 15 (or more ?) years old.Vince used 1. I have mine in a bag on a shelf.Obsolete ? Not yet.I wonder what they sell for on E-bay ? It was the most natural sounding module I ever owned.Better than my proteus (drums). Zendrumdude -- what module are we hearing in your (May) videos ? They sounded great. Maybe a couple more cymbals,but overall great sounding .