Author Topic: how to program to jam with friends  (Read 17050 times)

zendrumdude

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2009, 01:06:49 AM »
One more thing...

If y'all are getting the stuff about major keys, here's how minor keys work:

Take any major key (and its key signature).  If you want to find a minor scale, there are two ways to do it:

1) Play the notes present in the major key, but start on scale degree 6.  Now you're in what's called its "Relative Minor".  Example: key of C... C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C.  If you start on A, you get A minor: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A.  Another example: key of D: D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D.  Start on 6 and you get the key of B minor: B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A, B.  (Note that we started with the key C major and changed it to A minor).

2) Alter the major scale thus: flatten the 3rd, 6th, and 7th scale degrees.  This is called a major key's "Parallel Minor".  Example: Key of C.  C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C.  Flatten those 3 notes, so they are Eb, Ab, and Bb.  Now you have C minor: C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C.  (Note that we started with the key C major and changed it to C minor).

The two processes above do not achieve the same result, but they did each get us into a different minor key (just different ways of thinking of it.)  Method 1, where we changed to A minor, is called thinking "modally."  Modal means that we're using the same collection of notes but altering which one is the tonic (without changing the key signature).  In a later post I will go through the remaining 5 modes.  There are 7, and we've already covered 2: Ionian is Major, and Aeolian is minor.  Some people call Ionian the first mode and Aeolian the 6th, since starting on the first note of a major scale yields the Ionian mode, and starting on the 6th yields the Aeolian.

Remember that thing from a previous post about how to construct a Major scale in half and whole steps?  W W H W W W H?  Well, the same pattern is true in minor but starting in a different place: W H W W H W W.

One last thing: a very cool variation for the minor mode is called Harmonic Minor (kinda sounds middle eastern).  Harmonic minor is a minor scale, but with the 7th scale degree raised a half step.  (Notice that the 7th is now the 7th that would be used if the key were a MAJOR key.  It's a major 7th rather than a minor 7th). 

Example:

A minor:
A B C D E F G A

A harmonic minor:
A B C D E F G# A

Again, I hope someone is finding this interesting!

Jer

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2009, 01:36:06 AM »
Alright Z,we teamed up on them ! They're DIMINISHED brain capacity has been AUGMENTED. A MAJOR breakthrough ,for they're MINOR problems.
They should have learned it in the 2nd,3rd,4th,5th,or 6th or 7th grade.Or at least by they're 13th birthday.Or perhaps in 11th grade.After they're 9th lesson,we'll have them playing all the chords.

Hey Z,ever play the song "Town Without Pity" ?  Originally by Gene Pitney.& redone by many.  Check out the chord changes in that one.I've got them if your not familiar.In the 80's an acappella group ( The Nylons ) covered it.Those guys were unbelievable.How they voiced those chords, I'll never know.But if they did it,it can be played on a mallet kat.(4 mallets,of course). I wonder if Mario knows this song ?  I'll ask him on Wednesday.

I searched for the Nylons version - no luck.Here's the original Gene Pitney version.If you can learn all the chords in this song...your an advanced player...good luck with that ! ......This song is older than me ! Mario might have heard it when he was young & it was new.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhwPCNPfPgg          ..for 'music discussion' purposes & a 'chord primer'......
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 11:44:22 AM by Orb Vroomer »

zendrumdude

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2009, 06:24:41 PM »
Yeah, great song.  Lots of chords!  One thing I WISH I were better at is picking the chords out by ear.  Typical I-IV-V-vi, sure.  But not this.  What are they?

Jer

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2009, 07:57:52 PM »
Yeah.that is a very good song.If you see a band play this live - they are no slouches !! Only seen one cover band in town do it.Those guys also covered "Frankenstien" by Edgar Winter,& some other half Impossible tunes,as well. They were on a Mission I guess.A mission from god.Sunglasses optional.


Here is the file.It's a guitar arrangement,but it's real good.Makes it easier than piano notation.But since you know your chords......He included a couple of fret tabs for the stranger voicings.I almost had it memorized...then it modulated to Cm......brain mush set in..beyond transposing.

PS  This thread was a lot simpler until the last few posts.I hope we didn't scare anybody.We were talking to beginners.(DK players looking to go melodic). This is about 5 years of study now.

zendrumdude

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2009, 07:36:34 PM »
Orb,

Thanks man!  LOTSA chords...

Intro/verse uses a very typical "i iv VI v" progression, with some color tones... note that they never actually hit the diatonic v chord (which would be a minor chord; kinda awkward).  Instead, first it is voiced with a sus 4 (3rd) and then as an augmented chord (3rd and 5th are raised 1/2 step each).

This goes back to something in a previous post: harmonic minor mode.  The whole purpose of harmonic minor is to change the 7th up a half step so the V chord becomes a major chord... much stronger in a V to i cadence.

Jer

ps: I think you're right... maybe this is a little serious for a forum thread.

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2009, 10:35:00 PM »
Yeah,it's a lot real quick,for a dummer...I mean drummer ( like me ).  And what you just told me about the chord prog.  over me,too...I just barely figured out that how a diminished chord is used to modulate.Only because a few simple songs I leaned used that.One was " My Sweet Lord". I love the guitars in that song.  Also, I think in "He ain't Heavy,He's my Brother".  Same little trick.I leaned a bunch of guitar songs,real easy ones with only a few chords & worked may way (a little) up.I'm trying to give some beginner hints like I used, "learn easy songs first".  It's nice to play an easy song,without a bunch of lessons.
Getting an easy song down leads to trying a couple harder ones.People get frustrated too easy. We're a bunch of old geezers with not enough spare rehearsal time.Some drum kat players own mallet kats,but never really played a tuned instrument too much.

Let me know if you get that song arranged for 4 mallets.Like I said,a 4 piece accapella (how do you spell that ? )... ( The Nylons ) did it.so I know 4 notes can play it.I'm pretty sure there's some VERY high notes they hit.probably can't stretch that far ,but you'll find an arrangement,right ? If you feel like it,of course.Maybe your jazz buddys will want to cover it.  later. Z.    Vince still promised another lesson in here -- 3 chords & to the BRIDGE !!

"where's that confounded bridge ? " ooops.. I already used that one. "we've got 4 already & now we're steady"..."singin in the sunshine....laughin in the rain"

zendrumdude

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2009, 06:35:07 PM »
Orb,

Oh yeah man, you could play it 4-mallet, no problem.  The issue becomes WHICH notes to play in those complex chords.  Voiceleading becomes critical (as it would for an a capella group as well).  Scalewise motion for each mallet and paying attention to "leading tones" (half-step movements) are critical, as well as keeping parallel harmonized lines intact.  It would take some study, but 4 notes are plenty.  Plus, some of those really complex chords don't REALLY need all the color tones... for instance, ditch the 5th in a 9th chord so the 7th and 9th are apparent.  In jazz group playing, the chord player doesn't really need to play the root notes either... bass player does so!  (Not us malletdudes, I guess.)

You mentioned diminished as a vehicle for modulation:

Did you mean altering a minor chord in the original key by flatting the 5th, and then calling that dim chord the top 3 voices of a V7 in a new key, or did you mean RAISING the root of a major chord and calling THAT the top 3 of V7 in a new key or some other method?  Please elaborate!  Teach me!

Jer

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2009, 12:10:41 AM »
I don't think I'm the one 'teaching' right here,but I'll give you a couple examples of ( ? )  D Maj ,raise lo note 1/2 step (D# dim ) ,up to Em That's in "He ain't Heavy..."It's basically in G,but it gets around Your the analytical guy,I just copped a few chord charts.Especially the easier songs !!
The Hollies really nailed that song.The vocals & harmonies are great.Strings & a little production.

"My Sweet.."  a guit voicing  F#m to B ,2X , E to C#  2X .then F dim7 go to C#7 , & back to F#m   modulates to a G#m ,C#, 4X, F#,D#m ,4X, Gdim7 ,D#7 - back to G#m,   exact same prog after modulation.

A little gem I learned harpsi,violin,cello bass, on keys  "Piggies"  Beatles.  Bass ascends while top descends.Very cool.  I learned it in Ab,but those guitar dudes.......had to relearn it in D......er G    so...G,D 2X ,  Em7,A7  then, [ D, F# dim/E ,Fdim, D/F# ] , that's the part.This song is a little classical sounding.With acoustic Guit. ( note : I noticed a mistake from yesterday- I had an Em7 where the F# dim/E bass was,sorry.I corrected that.)

I like to learn songs solo ,if possible (my left hand....lacking ).  So I usually keep an eye on the bass or root.& whatever movement & try to weave the melody on the top.I learned "Here comes the Sun"  just like George (of course not JUST like G,but the notes are all correct)Since I don't sing,it's real important to try to weave the melody in.Chords & slow strumming ( on keys)  is easy.Just like strumming a guit.Just need a good sample with some articulations in the velocity response. If you want any chord/word pages for these songs,let me know,OK ?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2009, 02:51:02 PM by Orb Vroomer »

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2009, 11:03:27 AM »
Hey Z,I believe my examples may not have 'modulated' at all.. I should have said 'transition' chord.You probably saw that right away,but were too kind to point out my mistake.The D to D# dim to Em,is just a way to go to the relative minor, not really a key change.The song does go to an F maj,(F not in D maj ).but then on to an Am7 & back to D.Later on,the prog is : G, D/F# , Em , Eb (not in key),to a G.Also has a G , D/F# , C/E , to D then Am7 D7,& back to G.

The "Piggies" song is just a strange way to get from the D (V chord) ,back to the G (I chord).The cool part is how the Beatles used the ascending & descending notes : One vocal line follows the bottom note upwards - D,E,F , F#, G, while the descending vocal harmony descends - D, C, B , A & G.

Can I amend my old work & turn it in on Monday ? I don't want flunk music theory 101. It would be my first major F in music class & G,I don't like the sound of that.

PS : I told the guys to learn the 'blues' scale,but maybe you should teach that,also.I may not be close enough for RnR. Also,Z,you play keys,too ?

zendrumdude

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2009, 05:46:03 PM »
Orb,

I wish we could jam sometime.  I would learn a lot from you for sure.  I'm in a funny spot right now... I can analyze this stuff decently (and had to for years in music skool) and probably spell almost any chord you throw at me... but I never use it!!!  And therefore my mallet playing is... ummmm... mediocre (generous to call it that, in fact!)  A shame.  But, a friend of mine who is a killer keyman and I are going to start a duo next month (once we're done with this musical show we're playing... see other thread), in which I will be playing MalletKat exclusively.  My hope is for my actual musicianship to catch up with all the math I had to learn.  In a nutshell, I look good on paper but suck at mallets.  Not being humble, total truth.  But I am hoping to get there soon!

No, I didn't see your comment about the dim chord being a modulation tool as an error, and that is a cool way to use it.  Man, a guy could analyze this stuff to DEATH, and then, the next song you hear, a new thing you didn't think of.  I really love music theory for that!

We are so lucky to be able to slam on drums and get our rocks off, then play some mallets and work the theory.  I love percussion.

Jer

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2009, 06:16:16 PM »
Blues:
(Everything in this post relates to MAJOR blues, not minor blues... more on that next time.)

STEP 1:
The blues scale is basically a minor pentatonic scale (1, b3, 4, 5, b7) with an added tone (the "blue note") which is the note between 4 & 5 (so it's either #4 or b5).  So the blues scale is:

1 b3 4 b5 5 b7 (repeat)

Example keys: (first note of each names what key you're in)

C Eb F Gb G Bb
D F G Ab A C
E G A Bb B D
G Bb C Db D F
A C D Eb E G
Bb Db Eb Fb F Ab

STEP 2:
Also, for a slightly more "sophisticated" sound, play Dorian mode. 

Dorian can be calculated 3 ways, pick which one makes most sense to you:
-Major mode: lower 3rd and 7th by 1/2 steps each
-Minor mode: raise 6th by a half-step
-Play a major key, but start on the 2nd note (for instance, if you're playing all white notes (key of C) you're also playing the notes of D dorian)

Dorian is very similar to the blues scale, but it adds scale degrees 2 and 6 (major 6th, not minor!).  Add the blue note to THAT, and you have a lot to work with.

STEP 3:
Part of what makes playing the blues cool (and complicated) is knowing WHERE to play all those notes.  For instance, the blue note is often used as a passing tone between the V7 and IV7 chords in the turnaround (bars 9 and 10 of a 12-bar blues).  To sound even more sophisticated, follow the chord types rather than just playing "modally" in the blues or Dorian scales.

Standard 12-bar blues: (3 4-measure phrases)

Phrase 1:
I7 I7 I7 I7  Since the I7 chord is major but has a minor 7th, you'll need to play in Mixolydian mode here: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, b7  (Ex. in C: C, D, E, F, G, A, Bb)

Phrase 2:
IV7 IV7  Mixolydian again, but in the IV key: 4, 5, 6, b7, 1, 2, b3 (Ex. still in C: F, G, A, Bb, C, D, Eb)
I7 I7  (Mixo., see above)

Phrase 3:
V7  Mixolydian again, but in V key: 5, 6, 7, 1, 2, 3, 4 (Ex. still in C: G, A, B, C, D, E, F)
   *THIS IS A GOOD SPOT TO USE THE BLUE NOTE AS A PASSING TONE (Ex. in C: Gb)
IV7  (See above)
I7 I7  (See above)

So, if you think of the default scale being Mixolydian mode, here are the alterations to think of as you move through the phrases: (Mixolydian mode unless otherwise noted)

Bar 1
Bar 2
Bar 3
Bar 4
Bar 5 *Flat the 3
Bar 6 *Flat the 3
Bar 7
Bar 8
Bar 9 *Sharp the 7
*Use b5 between here
Bar 10 *Flat the 3
Bar 11
Bar 12

Later!

Jer

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2009, 03:33:50 PM »
OK, Mr. Z.   Jake & Elwood would be proud of your blues lessons in here.Let's try something different.Disclaimer: I don't own a malletKat & haven't had 4 mallets in my hands for over 30 years.....but...I think I can give some beginner or intermediate tips & exercises for some mallet players ,or even DK players.

Try this :  CM7 = CEGB    {all (not perfect ) 3rds in this whole progression} , Drop down one 3rd : Am7 = ACEG , down a 3rd again:  FM7 = FACE, drop a 3rd again :
 Dm7 = DFAC  , down again : ( strange chord here)  : Dm/B  or Bdim with 7th (it's not an Bdim7 ,no Ab):  BDFA  ,down to : G7 = GBDF , down to : Em7 = EGBD  & lands 2 octaves down on : CM7 CEGB    This prog just drops the top note & then adds a new bottom note (mostly 3rds) each time.Very easy with 4 mallets,as the spacing never varies.

In this exercise your mallets stay at the same interval all throughout.ALL 3rds.On a keyboard : all WHITE NOTES.Your not in any key signature - your just doing it as an exercise in easy 4 mallet chording.

OK. Now lets do this :  CM7 / / / , Am7 / / /   2X ,   FM7 / / / , Em7 / /  , Ebm7 (1 beat)    ,Dm7 / / / ,G/D / / / , resolve it up to start : CM7 / / /  ( / = 1 beat )
                                     CEGB    , ACEG           ,    FACE     , EGBD  ,  EbGbBbDb         ,DFAC     ,DGBD                                       CEGB
This : CM7 / / / = 4 beats,chord symbol is first beat ,plus 3 /'s = 4 beats or a measure.


It's simple to play because the 4 mallet spacing never varies.Play around with the chord notes - it will sound good.You may stumble onto a melody by just playing around with the chord notes.If anybody wants to hear this (on piano) ,I'll post an MP3 file & you can play along to double check your part.

In the spirit of Vince's thread here,I'm trying to give some easy progressions for beginners or intermediate ( like me) players.I have some other easy progs for a 2 note bass line & 2 chord changes.I think gmbydmit is interested.I told him I would teach him the main riff in "Green Eyed Lady" ,as well.It's easier than it sounds.Forget about the monster Hammond solo..It's a long term project of mine,though.

davidbenz017

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2012, 06:34:45 AM »
I like hearing this sort of talk! Drummers actively playing chords ahead....watch out
     And as don't forget, should you decide have a DrumK you want to use melodic mode to ready these up....but the role you need to not forget is: you will need melodic mode to ready things up, since well as get the 'notes in', as well as then you can change to other mode! The notes you ready up in melodic mode will continue to do their best to 'be' inside the brand new mode!
Vince

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2012, 06:30:10 AM »
Yeah, great track.  Quite a few chords!  One thing I WISH I happened to be better at is choosing the chords out by ear.  Typical I-IV-V-vi, pretty sure.  However not this.

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Re: how to program to jam with friends
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2012, 08:23:57 AM »
Alongside Ron Greene's Rock & Blues Guitar Energy Chord Dial, you will be jamming alongside your girlfriend as well as close friends in no time. Get the thing as well as ask more concerns, because we really can skip some of this book reading and also get you playing quicker. (it's no fun to be during the begginning of something so overwhelming, so we want to allow you to seem the fun role, before you know it, the book things definitely will begin creating sense) Many teachers have this thing about launching alongside discipline as well as banging the way to being good one small note at just a time. Certain discipline good hours of training good.....but if you get a bad tude and additionally don't desire to play any longer.....what's the purpose. With a few teachers you won't manage to play just about any song for a few days and then it's normally something you don't desire to play.