Author Topic: KAT controllers being outdated???  (Read 23978 times)

Orb Vroomer

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2010, 10:31:41 PM »
Very impressive,Ray !  :o I like how the cymbals are mounted up high.I guess the splashes would be lower.

I'll have to go back to your link for a closer look at all those drums (& snares ! ). Also,very impressive.

Getting old & lugging big gear.....yikes...me too !!  I am still working on the lighter weight e set up ,myself.I had a duplicate kit 95% done....& changed it...got sidetracked...ready to start in again....#1 rig hasn't left the basement in 3 years  :'(  I MUST PLAY OUT THIS YEAR !!  :)

That time lapse of Bozzio's kit set up...see that ?  about 4 guys working...takes so long the shadows moved across the stage..Bozzio said it was the first time set up,outside of studio or whatever.Ray ,you have kids & grand kids.....there's your roadies !   ;)  The small kids can carry the splashes. ;D





spottyscotty

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2010, 11:41:02 PM »
That time lapse of Bozzio's kit set up...see that ?  about 4 guys working...takes so long the shadows moved across the stage..
Yes, required viewing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV9WlgC5oWo
Couldn't quite get to 50 while counting the cymbals there though..  ;)

Cheers,
Scotty

REF

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2010, 07:15:22 AM »
I have seen the Bozzio set up vid. Incredible. His set changes alot too. Last one I saw had a wild rack system. Takes me about two and half hours to set up mine. Maybe less if I can get stuff in the door more quickly than some places I have played in.

I realize no company is going to make an attempt to have tons of cymbals in their menus which can be purchased acoustically. On the other hand, if they made an attempt to at least give drummers selections from the major companies top lines - Paiste Sigs; Sabian AAs, HHs; Zil As, Ks, maybe ACs, and throw in some UFIP Class, and some of the Turk companies that would be great, and worthy of the entire premise of edrumming and the money spent on their mods.

Funny how it looks like the cymbals are all set up high, yet I have them so I can touch each one with the palm of my hand. That's how I set distance. Of course, a bunch are low, even below the toms, like my sizzle ride below my h-h and left side front toms. I basically have them wherever I can put them.

It was brought up about pianos and notes. To me a pianist has 88 notes to work with. Few can play ten notes at a time, or would, and how many will hit all 88 keys in a performance? But, it's nice to have them there if they want them. Same with drums and cymbals for me. The beauty of electronics is the space. You can crunch everything really tight because of the sensors. So why not give players a "Bozzio" option-type rig. Less is more is popular right now with many players. The more is more group,people like myself, will never go away. It is a market that could be tapped if manufacturers thought outside their boxes a little more.

gmbydmit

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2010, 08:28:50 AM »
GOTTA SEE SOME PICS MAN!

this set sounds awesome, please share pics....

 ;D

DrumMan

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2010, 01:24:03 PM »
Less-is never MORE,it is just that-less. I play "less cymbals than Ray, only running about 14 + 2 gongs(22&30")-the cymbal discussion is interesting.
I think if the marketing folks at the cymbal manufacturers are missing a marketing tool--samples of their line.Think how much /how many of us would pay for,say,the entire sabian collection on a CD?
RE:mp3's--they sound like "cassette"quality to me,very compressed,omitted & dropped frequencies,no awards there.
Analaog still provides the highest frequency range-but by now,most of us accept the 20-20khz standard of digital media,besides,most humans do not have the hearing range(!) to even go there-if you're in doubt,go to an audiologist,get yourself tested.You will be amazed/and dissapointed.
RE:hitting a trigger harder,to get a layered velocity to mset for more bell,is the onlly way that's going to happen,agree-about multiple zones needed.
I really want the Trapkat to setup as all drums,and have a 180 degree"ring" around it of cymbals&percussion.
Thought of cutting a Trapkat in 2,but I would need 3-and who would do such a thing.The SPCTK's would have my head,er..hands?:)
Let's keep going with discussion/thoughts on cymbal samples,polyphony.etc..
http://www.drumman.iwarp.com/images/photo_060809_013_500x400.jpg
link to my cymbal setup-peace!

pljones

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2010, 01:47:39 PM »
Quote
the entire sabian collection on a CD
*cough* I'd expect that to fill many, many DVDs if sampled adequately.  (Remember, I have a hi-hat that fills a DVD.  One pair of cymbals.  4GB.  Yum.)

But absolutely.  I've no idea why this isn't seen as a "second line" for the hardware guys.  Looks, I'm never, ever, ever going to buy your physical stuff.  So you won't be competing with yourselves!  It's money you wouldn't otherwise get from me!  And it costs you next to nothing -- you even get to sell the physical stuff you sampled!  (Maybe as "used"...)

I'm happy with downloads for samples -- my broadband speed is okay and I'll happily leave my PC running overnight whilst I'm getting my beauty sleep.  (I'll then back up to DVD, though, as well as my back-up drive.  Three copies of anything paid for, if downloaded...  I must get better at saving unlock keys with the stuff they belong to, as well...)  But lossy audio compression is just that -- lossy.  For "less sensitive" stuff, I'll use OGG at best quality (it depends on the input as to whether it "sounds better" than MP3 at best quality, space is about the same), otherwise I use FLAC (which is lossless but still saves a lot of disk space).  Most of the time, though, for samples, I'll stick with the WAVs (so much data to compress, I can't be bothered - disk is cheap enough).

Cassette tape is analogue.  Vinyl is analogue.  Neither would I prefer over 96KHz 24bit recordings...  Nor over 44.1KHz 16 bit recordings -- to my ears, that's enough.  (96KHz/24bit is useful when processing the audio during production...  I'm as yet unconvinced by the need for bigger numbers.)  Of course, you're talking about the recording path up to the "capture" to medium, rather than the medium itself.  In digital terms, there are several factors: A/D converters and DSPs (software and hardware) being the main ones.  Good A/D converters will capture at stupidly wide and deep quality (192KHz sample rates and 32bit sample depths are available, far exceeding what analogue equipment can achieve and costing far less) -- but you still need a good analogue path to the A/D to make use of that!  The DSPs - how the captured digital data is processed - have a big impact too.  Just as a particular piece of analogue hardware colours a signal a particular way, DSP algorithms can do the same.  Or can avoid any noticeable colouration.

Would a couple of DITI's with Poles for your TrapKAT sort you out?  ndk has more strike positions than I can access with my TrapKAT without resorting to using the breath controller.  (It's got enough samples per position I don't want to use strike force to select different positions, it'd be wasteful!)  A second ring of edges might be handy...  (I'll dream of being able to justify the cost...)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 02:00:10 PM by pljones »

Orb Vroomer

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated & the cymbal extravagonzo deluxe discussion
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2010, 05:00:56 PM »
Nice kit DrumMan !  ;) Is that an I- Mac over in the corner ? I used one in between an original Mac (from 84,got it later on for a song) & my I -Mac was given to me for free - old & no Firewire,though.

Great if the cymbal companies got involved in software.A quick inventory of hardware vendors : E-MU- bagged most hardware several years ago - they are ahead of the curve.Rland (with that CMOS ,or ? doesn't sample ), so they threw away their Mr. Microphone & bulky transmission towers (like in the Mr. Mic. commercial ,as seen on the Simpsons).So I suppose Y is still sampling.

Here is the current state.(IMHO) When companies drop the ball,it opens up room for new upstarts (see Alternate Mode).So as Y & R continue with their rather expensive ( & best) hardware ,that leaves room for the software upstarts to join in.The little guys can have superior quality - because they have to,in order to sell their wares.They have to develop their reputation amongst us users.And they did that quite well.

I have to agree with plj & DMan,s evaluation of the analouge/ digital comparisons.The studios keep it higher quality,but by the time it gets to our delivery system - well there is the drop in quality.And YES - ALL A/D converters are NOT created equal.I know my Mac's built in audio is not all that good.However- I don't have an A to B comparison to listen to in my humble studio.I have heard better home studios,though,just no A to B comparison side by side.

Golden rule in audio : YOUR ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR WEAKEST LINK. So if your medium quality mic (like mine) inputs into a lo-fi mic pre amp in your mixer - well your kinda shut out of higher quality.So I'd say ,for us home studio guys,your mixer pre is the second vital step,after mics.If you have a lo-fi mixer- maybe buy a stand alone pre - yeah - & get one with a tube !  ;) I've been wanting to buy one for a while now....It's a lot cheaper than top end mixer.Seems like a sensible workaround,as opposed to the top end mixer (which most of us can't afford.There are pre amps out of our $ range ,too.(Like those Manley pre amps.)

Quick story (yeah,right Orb,quick).OK. So I need to pull my A& H GL 2000 out of club for servicing.So I stick this B-earinger board in temporarily.First night in - one of my guys calls me. " Dude - this mixer sucks - your screwing us !! It sounds like @#%^%." They were right.So I go in one night to pull up a mix.The kick sounds horrible.No EQing helps ! No matter what - the whole sonic characteristic has vanished.The rest of the system was identical-amps,cabs,EQ,etc. I'm telling you - they board sucked the life out of ANY SOUND,ANY MIC. UNBELIEVABLE.

jrcel

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2010, 06:27:42 PM »
If new hackers have been employed why can't one of these geniuses take a look at the Drumkat's code and see what might be done, if anything, to clean it up and move it into the 21st Century. More patterns would be great as would sounds or more kits, how 'bout an editor? Cumon' guys, anything, I'm dying here. I've been loyal..........I'll be good............plleeaaaasssssee.....whimper, sob.............I dont beg this much for sex. Fuck it, I know when I'm licked.........all over. Well that was disgusting. C'est la Vie , mon et mon.

pljones

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2010, 11:25:06 AM »
My understanding is the only person who can look at the DrumKAT's code is the DrumKAT coder, who's left with the code.  No one wants to try to reverse engineer from machine instructions.  Basically, it means starting again - either with the same hardware but new software, or a complete new deal.  Given the CPU is ageing and the memory space is limited, I'd guess Mario can see the benefits of the "complete new deal".  Or you put a MalletKAT in a round case and sell it as a steel drum.  Or evolve the TrapKAT a bit (resurface to match the MalletKAT, software upgrade).

But you don't want to take away everything from the DrumKAT guys and start over: they wouldn't like it.  (Really, do you want to deal either with software that's complex, new and full of bugs or has hardly any of the features you use?  And in either case, likely to work completely differently to how you work now?)

benjammin

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2010, 08:07:53 PM »
NEOPRENE!!

Rudy Pizzuti

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2011, 12:39:21 AM »
I haven't been here for ages...and I'm extremely happy for Mario and Alternate mode, with their new addition of miditronix!  I am also happy for the drummers that are finally going to comprehend FSR and then really appreciate electronic percussion. This new innovation of a FSR hybrid head will bring many percussionists into the field of electronics just because it's a real drum...it will also attract many from the electronic drum world making their roland-yamaha-hart-pintech-alesis-sets obsolete. As for me I wouldn't want to carry around all that gear again. My accoustic drums have been stacked in the corner for years...my pintech set is cased...as is the hart set...and the alesis set has been put back in the original boxes after having to use it once because the trapKat had to return to it's birthplace for a new FSR...I love my Kats and would not want to play anything else.  My tag line use to be...the wife is jealous of the Kats! Well she was, so I got rid of her and kept the Kats...they can do more...and they're programable! 

Orb Vroomer

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2011, 02:02:04 AM »
I like your style , Rudy.

Rudy Pizzuti

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2011, 05:07:05 PM »
 Thanks OV.... and speaking of style, I went to your U-Tube channel and you have plenty of it. Only one thing to say about it...AWESOME.  Isn't creating music wonderful without having to deal with guitarists !

Orb Vroomer

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Re: KAT controllers being outdated???
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2011, 02:24:54 PM »
Thanks for the kind words, Rudy.   ;)  How many guitar players does it take to.........never mind.......zero for me.